2019 - General DALnet and Services questions
[19:59:01] <@Sara_Ks> Welcome everyone, we will be starting in a few minutes
[20:00:00] <@Sara_Ks> welcome
[20:07:13] <@Sara_Ks> Hi, I want to welcome everyone that is here. I hope you find this helpful. I want to thank everyone who has helped with this.
[20:08:05] <@Sara_Ks> I am going to cover some of the more common questions first. The list is long and should appear with answers on our web site.
[20:08:33] <@Sara_Ks> The ones I will cover generate the most questions, some are pretty simple and I will leave those out
[20:08:51] <@Sara_Ks> If you have a question, ask, we will see it an answer
[20:09:40] <@Sara_Ks> Please feel free, its best to cover the answers well than do a large number of questions. I hope this all adds to your happiness on Dalnet
[20:10:30] <@Sara_Ks> The first question arises often, 1. What do I do when I can not complete the nickname auth process?
[20:11:07] <@Sara_Ks> This can be tricky at times. I will post the answer and give you time to look at it and ask questions
[20:11:33] <@Sara_Ks> Once you have registered your nick you will receive an email with a link in it, You can click on this link which will complete the registration. If this does not work there are several things you can do. First try using a different computer, from another location, sometimes the problem is with your IP, it may be flagged, often not for anything you have done. You can check a few things by
[20:11:33] <@Sara_Ks> clicking https://www.dal.net/?page=monitors&highlight=proxy and http://www.anti-abuse.org/multi-rbl-check/ Both of these sites( and there are others) can give you an Idea of why you are having a problem.
[20:11:33] <@Sara_Ks> Sometimes using a cell phone works (turn off your wifi so you donít use the IP you are having trouble with). You might talk with your internet provider who may be able to change your IP. You may also come to #OperHelp, we will do everything possible to help you. Please note, do not ask us to do it for you, we can not. Nor can you have someone else do it for you. Keep in mind, we WILL figure
[20:11:34] <@Sara_Ks> out a solution within the rules.
[20:13:30] <@Sara_Ks> Think about this one some. You might also be asked by someone about it, its nice to know an answer. They can go to #help, #helpdesk, or #operhelp
[20:13:50] <@Sara_Ks> People in those channels have had training to help with this
[20:15:41] <@Sara_Ks> Ok, I'm going to move on BTW, if you have a question on your mind, just type it an ask. We do not have a set format and want to get what is on your mind answer
[20:15:54] <@Sara_Ks> ed
[20:19:30] <@Sara_Ks> Why do I need to have a nick for one year to request a new one?
[20:19:48] <@Sara_Ks> I'm sure some of you have asked about this
[20:20:08] <@Sara_Ks> This is done to help reduce people from collecting numerous nicks. We do not want people to hold excessive nicks. There are people on DALnet who collect them and later sell them. We try to monitor this. It doesnít mean you canít have more than one nick. You can have more than one for situations where it makes sense.
[20:20:41] <@xPsycho> JoseLo: If someone accidentally types the wrong email address when registering, they can use "/nickserv SET EMAIL <password> <email>" to fix their address and a new AUTH email will be sent to the new address.
[20:22:17] <@Sara_Ks> A related question to the one above: I forgot my nickname password and I donít remember my email. What do I do?
[20:23:16] <@Sara_Ks> This is a difficult situation and is why its important to keep a good record. You are in a tough situation when that happens
[20:23:22] <@Sara_Ks> The first step is to look through your IRC logs to look for the time you registered the nick, it should show your PW and email. Second go back through your emails to see if you can find the various email addresses you have used. You are responsible to keep track of this information. If you lose it, you lose your nick. In SOME cases, if you come to #OperHelp we may be able to assist you. We
[20:23:22] <@Sara_Ks> are very protective of nicks. We will NOT participate in giving someoneís nick away. If there is ANY doubt, we will not help you.
[20:24:21] <@Sara_Ks> The more you remember about your registration, the more likely we can help you
[20:25:21] <@Sara_Ks> One that comes up often... I have a frozen nick, what can I do?
[20:27:11] <@Sara_Ks> If your nick has been frozen, something serious occurred. Nick freezes are not taken lightly on DALnet. There is oversight in this process. To get a nick unfrozen is going to take a very good explanation. You can come to #OperHelp OR you can go to our web site and fill out a ticket.
[20:27:16] <@Sara_Ks> Fill this ticket out and submit it. It will be considered. Be open, honest and detailed as to what happened and why. If you made a mistake, say so. If you feel we made a mistake, lay out the reasons in detail.Anything less than this might not have a good outcome.
[20:28:04] <@Sara_Ks> http://users.dal.net/karnaf/new.php will be a good place to start
[20:28:36] <@Sara_Ks> So, far any questions? Or comments?
[20:31:41] <@Sara_Ks> I think sps has a few words....
[20:32:01] <@sps> `010101010101: Frozen nicknames are those nicknames that have been barred from using Services on DALnet any further. The reasons to this could be linked with abusing services, continuing spamming or anything else going against DALnet AUP.
[20:33:52] <@Sara_Ks> When will a nick be released?
[20:34:19] <@sps> DALnet staff is very peculiar about this process, nicknames can be frozen and so can be channels. Unless the users are not trying to spam, advertising, mass invite, harass, or abuse services(register multiple channels, share passwords for nicks and channels, etc), the nickname or channel will not be under the scanner.
[20:34:47] <@sps> Sara_Ks: please continue, thanks!
[20:34:55] <@Sara_Ks> What is the policy for requesting nicks as well
[20:34:57] <@xPsycho> Batman: The contacthc.php link is meant only for contacting the Help Committee about help channel related isues. It's not meant to be used for general user help. Please open a ticket with the ticket link (https://users.dal.net/karnaf/new.php) for anything related to AKILLs, freezes, and IRCOp help.
[20:35:34] <@Sara_Ks> Our policy on requesting nicks is:Ē Inactive (non-held) nicks will expire after 3650 days (10 years). That means if a nick isn't used for more than 10 years, it will be purged from the database. Users can request an inactive nicks after 30 days.2. Frozen nicks will only become inactive after 365 days (one year)Ē This means a frozen nick can only be requested after 1 year. Keep in mind,
[20:35:34] <@Sara_Ks> there MAY be rare exceptions. It would be best to come to #OperHelp and ask. To request a nick you must have a validly registered for at least 1 year. You can visit https://www.dal.net/kb/view.php?kb=273 to review the procedure.
[20:36:56] <@Sara_Ks> Ok, this a bit complicated.
[20:38:32] <@Sara_Ks> A nick doesnt expire for 10 years, during that time the original owner can come on line and log to it, reactivate it
[20:39:19] <@Sara_Ks> BUT if he does nothing, it can be requested by going to the web site above, it lays out the process
[20:39:41] <@Sara_Ks> If it is a frozen nick, then there is a one year wait
[20:40:20] <@Kobi_S> Q: What is the policy to obtain/register an inactive nick which is frozen and has not been used since long? Can someone else who is not the previous owner, unfreeze it by requesting ?
[20:40:21] <@Sara_Ks> Kobi_S I think wants to comment on this as well
[20:41:06] <@Kobi_S> A: Basically when a nick is frozen, you can see why and who to contact when identifying to NickServ with the correct password for it
[20:41:19] <@Kobi_S> if the IRCop who froze it decide to unfreeze it, the previous owner can get it back
[20:41:36] <@Kobi_S> if the IRCop who frozen it decide to keep it frozen, the previous owner who had the nick basically lost it
[20:42:13] <@Kobi_S> and other users will be able to request it after a year
[20:42:18] <@Kobi_S> @
[20:43:35] <@Sara_Ks> To cover a few other things with this: When you have a nick frozen or a channel frozen there has been a problem. Most often it's based on something you did, sometimes it's unintentional or you didnít even realise what happened. Sometimes bots are banned for a number of reasons. Should this happen we donít as a normal practice give out the information on who set it. Sometimes it's not a
[20:43:35] <@Sara_Ks> person, but services. There are many possibilities. You can also try to connect with the correct Password, this may tell you the reason for the freeze and who to contact. Also you may gather up any messages you received, any information you have which you feel may be relevant and if there is
[20:44:32] <@Sara_Ks> one, an explanation on what happened. You can come to #OperHelp, we will try to help or explain the action. You may also fill out a ticket on our web site with the same information. https://users.dal.net/karnaf/new.php These tickets are answered as soon as possible.
[20:45:05] <@sps> akhir: sure pls go ahead and ask your question
[20:46:19] <@Sara_Ks> Ok the questin akhir asked: May i know , can u give some justification for sentences" there may be rare exceptions " ?
[20:47:02] <@Sara_Ks> I will ask Kobi_S to address it or one of the SRAs or CSOPs
[20:47:24] <@Kobi_S> akhir: which nick?
[20:47:52] <@Kobi_S> in general, the rare cases a nick will not become inactive and will not expire even after 10 years are
[20:48:18] <@Kobi_S> nicks that are used by IRC Operators who contributed a lot to the network and left
[20:49:32] <@Kobi_S> akhir: this looks like a bug, we'll get it fixed
[20:49:54] <@sps> Batman: Abuse of services includes nickname chasing
[20:50:54] <@sps> it could be because of password sharing (nick/channel), multiple registerations, trading nicks/channels and so on.
[20:51:10] <@Sara_Ks> Ok as an explanation, some people try to register as many nicks as they can. Some try to sell the nicks. When we detect it, we stop it
[20:52:28] <@Sara_Ks> When you Do register a nick, you have noticed as part of the registration you are asked a question. Some have asked, "Is the answer case sensitive?"
[20:52:50] <@Sara_Ks> As a general rule, the answers are not case sensitive. However, there are a few questions which DO require a case sensitive answer. An example: Xpsycho Is Totally Awesome. What are the capital letters? The answer would be XITA and not xita.
[20:53:33] <@Sara_Ks> In that case its case sensitive
[20:55:13] <@Sara_Ks> Ok, Batman Has a specific question and its a situational one, so I will post it
[20:55:16] <@Sara_Ks> maybe a specific situation would clarify my question I might not be expressing myself right, the nickname "DeeJay" used to be my nickname from back in the days. now it's status is frozen. Is it because whoever took over that nickname afterwards abused services? specially that the Last seen time and Time registered are similar?
[20:55:42] <@Sara_Ks> sps would like to answer it... its all yours
[20:57:00] <@Sara_Ks> He may be researching this case
[20:57:01] <@sps> Ok, so there is a question from Batman. He mentions the nickname 'Deejay' as Frozen.
[20:58:28] <@sps> Since, normally a nickname when it goes inactive for 30days or more can be requested by anyone who owns a nickname for more than a year. So, if the later user(last user using it) did something which is not as DALnet Services laid out rules, they might have gone into a frozen state.
[20:58:59] <@sps> Please note, https://www.dal.net/news/shownews.php?id=165 that there is an article that details more info on this.
[20:59:44] <@sps> this was mentioned by Sara_Ks earlier - frozen nicks will *not* be able to be requested for at least one year after being frozen.
[20:59:57] <@sps> But I just wanted to mentioned since it was linked with Batman's question.
[21:00:04] <@sps> Sara_Ks: thanks please go ahead.
[21:00:06] <@xPsycho> In the case of DeeJay, the nick was requested and no one won the request. It can be requested again 1 year after the last seen time.
[21:00:37] <@Sara_Ks> Ok, moving on a common question: How do I stop floodding in my channel?
[21:00:47] <@Sara_Ks> This is a difficult issue. Often flooding is caused by an action someone took, be it a moderator or a user. Sometimes it's just someone intent on being disruptive. There are other reasons. Sometimes mediation with the offender helps. Sometimes banning him, his bots help. Sometimes none of that helps. DALnet gives you many tools. Bans, akick, channel join limits, and Xflag commands, there are
[21:00:47] <@Sara_Ks> other tools as well. DALnet also has built in features which detect and mitigate floods. Over the last year we have been able to greatly reduce this issue. We can not eliminate it. The best bet is to review the commands for the features mentioned about, become somewhat familiar with them. You might be able to eliminate the problem yourself. If not you are welcome to visit #help or #OperHelp.
[21:00:48] <@Sara_Ks> We will be glad to assist. We mentioned XFLAG above. On our web site is the text of a seminar explaining it. You can view that as well.
[21:02:48] <@Sara_Ks> In real life we have to be creative. Training your ops, asking us for guidence in that. Having them KNOW the commands and how to use them is important
[21:03:31] <@Sara_Ks> Some channels control floods WELL because the ops know how to deal with it
[21:03:55] <@Sara_Ks> The tools we offer are of help and if you need help with them..just ask
[21:04:16] <@xPsycho> DALnet generally does not get involved in the management of individual channels. Flooding and similar nuisances are best handled by channel ops with modes like +b, +i, +k, +R, +m, +M, +j, +l and with ChanServ XFLAGS. We'll check if there's any general network activity we can look into, but it's best to have the channel ops read up on the following topics:
[21:04:16] <@xPsycho> http://docs.dal.net/docs/modes.html#2
[21:04:16] <@xPsycho> http://docs.dal.net/docs/chanflags.html
[21:04:34] <@xPsycho> If you need assistance with any of these commands or modes, #help will be glad to assist.
[21:05:40] <@Sara_Ks> Keep in mind, it hurts your channel if you do not work on this
[21:06:21] <@Sara_Ks> Ok, next DALnet generally does not get involved in the management of individual channels. Flooding and similar nuisances are best handled by channel ops with modes like +b, +i, +k, +R, +m, +M, +j, +l and with ChanServ XFLAGS. We'll check if there's any general network activity we can look into, but it's best to have the channel ops read up on the following topics:
[21:07:35] <@Sara_Ks> Next: How do I complain about a channel, an op, an IRCop?
[21:08:21] <@Sara_Ks> If you have a complaint about a channel or channel op, generally you must contact the founder of the channel. DALnet does not monitor or control channel content or actions of moderators unless it violates DALnet rules. A channel can ban you for any reason or no reason. DALnet will NOT intercede. If you find something which violates our rules, yes, please come to #OperHelp. If you are unsure,
[21:08:21] <@Sara_Ks> feel free to come to #OperHelp to ask.
[21:08:21] <@Sara_Ks> If you have a complaint about an IRCop, you can start by coming to #OperHelp. We can try to help. If not, you can submit a ticket at http://users.dal.net/karnaf/new.php Your complaint will be routed to the proper place.
[21:12:17] <@Sara_Ks> We ARE sensitive to complaints. Mistakes are made. I have made them. Ops make them. Its important that we understant...angry complaints don't help much. With us, with a channel, or with anyone.We are all here by choice, we all want to help. If you have an issue it helps to think it through can contact the person
[21:13:49] <@Sara_Ks> Next question: I lost my founder nick and the channel info says ďChannel in limbo,Ē What do I do?
[21:14:22] <@Sara_Ks> This means that a memo) was sent to your channel successor so he can claim the channel. He has 10 days for him to claim the channel. If he does it is his channel and you will need to talk to him about ownership. DALnet will not mediate or be involved except if DALnet rules were violated in some way. Should the successor not respond within the ten days, then normal channel expiration applies
[21:15:43] <@Sara_Ks> So, be careful with your channel. Having a successor is a backup to losing it if you are not here. If your nick goes inactive, your channel is at risk
[21:17:01] <@Sara_Ks> This is a question I've been asked: Can I have a music bot in my channel? Can I advertise? Can I run a business there?
[21:17:32] <@Sara_Ks> No. we do not allow the downloading of music files or ANY files which could cause a copyright violation. There are some fine lines in this. If you arenít sure or just want to verify, please come to #OperHelp
[21:18:10] <@Sara_Ks> We do not allow advertising a business, Dalnet is non profit
[21:18:30] <@Sara_Ks> So running a business is not permitted
[21:18:43] <@Holbrook> Batman: when the founders nick expires the memo is sent to the successor
[21:19:28] <@Sara_Ks> Yes and the risk is if the nick is inactive and someone requests it
[21:19:44] <@Holbrook> or let me correct that, inactive, sorry still used to expire
[21:20:03] <@xPsycho> You were right the first time, Holbrook.
[21:20:22] <@Sara_Ks> Yup
[21:20:37] <@xPsycho> A channel will go into limbo if the founder's nick is dropped or expires, and that usually happens if the nick went inactive, was requested, and someone new one it.
[21:21:22] <@Sara_Ks> So, its important to not let that happen
[21:22:17] <@Sara_Ks> Regarding the music question: If you misuse the channel, it can be frozen as well as the founders nick
[21:22:25] <@xPsycho> Basically, if someone wins a nick through the nick request system, all access that nick had (Founder, Manager, SOp, AOp, VOp, etc) is removed so that the new user can't abuse or get the same access the old owner had.
[21:24:03] <@Coastwatcher> So, requesting a nickname that is a founder of a channel, won't get you ownership of the channel by pretending to be the old founder.
[21:24:39] <@Sara_Ks> Ok, next and btw we are about done. I have more than double the number of questions, but I don't want this to go on too long
[21:25:05] <@Sara_Ks> My nick/channel was stolen, what can I do?
[21:25:28] <@Sara_Ks> There are several things here. First, don't let it happen.
[21:26:42] <@Sara_Ks> If you get ANY request asking you for your Password once you have logged on. Let us know in #operhelp. DO NOT respond. That happens and its a way to get your nick
[21:27:47] <@Sara_Ks> Second. Never enter your password in a channel window
[21:28:11] <@Sara_Ks> Aways use a status window or set your client to do it automatically
[21:28:47] <@Sara_Ks> Its easy to put your PW in channel by accident
[21:28:55] <@Sara_Ks> So don't ever take the risk
[21:29:10] <@Sara_Ks> If it does happen, come to #operhelp
[21:29:57] <@Sara_Ks> We MAY be able to help but keep in mind, YOU are responsible for your PW and as a general rule, the person with the PW owns the nick/channel
[21:30:32] <@Sara_Ks> don't share it
[21:31:42] <@Sara_Ks> Ok, I'm going to do one more since its been a long time:
[21:31:52] <@Sara_Ks> How can I cloak my IP?
[21:32:33] <@Sara_Ks> There are services which will allow you to log on to them and access DALnet from their server, showing their IP, not yours. Some are web based, some are based on paying for space on the server and loading a program which does this for you. You can come to #help for advice on finding a provider. DALnet does not provide cloaking. It is something we are working on but we can not give you any
[21:32:33] <@Sara_Ks> target date whatever.
[21:33:14] <@Sara_Ks> I wonder if anyone has some comments on this?
[21:33:46] <@Sara_Ks> Ok we were asked what cloak means
[21:34:10] <@Coastwatcher> and be aware, using those services are your risk, if they steal your password/nick/channel... There is little likelihood we will be able to get them back for you
[21:34:12] <@Sara_Ks> When you are on here people can see the IP you are using
[21:34:38] <@Sara_Ks> Cloaking prevents them from seeing it
[21:35:24] <@Sara_Ks> It has its risks, but sometimes its worth it, again coming to the help channels will allow you to discuss it and see if its something you want to use
[21:36:07] <@Sara_Ks> Kobi_S Is going to address more about successors and managers
[21:36:21] <@Kobi_S> Q: if i didnt remember my successor channel, what i must do?
[21:36:42] <@Kobi_S> A: The channel founder can see who the successor with the /ChanServ INFO #channel command
[21:37:02] <@Kobi_S> also, the successor of the channel will see it in the /ChanServ INFO #channel command and will also get a memo if the founder's nick expires
[21:37:13] <@Kobi_S> others can't see who the successor is :)
[21:37:25] <@Kobi_S> Q: what's a difference between manager and SOp ?
[21:37:52] <@Kobi_S> A: a SOP can add and remove AOPs and AKICKs, while a manager can:
[21:37:54] <@Kobi_S> - Manage the SOP list (add/remove SOPs)
[21:37:54] <@Kobi_S> - Wipe AOP/SOP lists
[21:37:54] <@Kobi_S> - Change channel description
[21:37:54] <@Kobi_S> - Set/unset OPGUARD
[21:37:54] <@Kobi_S> - Set/unset MLOCK
[21:37:54] <@Kobi_S> - Set/unset IDENT
[21:37:54] <@Kobi_S> - Set/unset KEEPTOPIC
[21:37:54] <@Kobi_S> - Set/unset RESTRICT
[21:37:54] <@Kobi_S> - Set/unset URL
[21:37:54] <@Kobi_S> - Set/unset VERBOSE
[21:37:54] <@Kobi_S> - Set/unset TOPICLOCK (unless it's locked to the founder)
[21:37:54] <@Kobi_S> - Set/unset LEAVEOPS
[21:37:54] <@Kobi_S> - Set/unset PRIVATE
[21:37:54] <@Kobi_S> - Set/unset MEMO level (unless it's locked to the founder)
[21:37:54] <@Kobi_S> - See successor's nick with ChanServ INFO
[21:38:01] <@Kobi_S> (Source: https://www.dal.net/kb/view.php?kb=196)
[21:38:02] <@Kobi_S> @
[21:39:33] <@Kobi_S> Q: if nick Founder has been frozen?
[21:39:55] <@Kobi_S> A: the successor won't be able to get it until the founder's nick expires... however, the CSop who froze the founder's nick can unfreeze it
[21:40:11] <@Kobi_S> @
[21:40:52] <@Sara_Ks> Ok, someone asked this earlier How can I be an IRCOP
[21:41:34] <@Sara_Ks> Simply put, an IRCop is a user, just like you. However they have additional commands available to enable the server to be maintained, users helped and our web pages maintained.
[21:41:34] <@Sara_Ks> Being an IRCop comes to people who contribute to the server, developed relationships with those maintaining servers, have demonstrated they can help maintain a server, help people and above all, have developed relationships that cause a server needing another IRCop to think of them. There is no application, no set path, no suggestions other than be here, be active, be known, contribute, be
[21:41:34] <@Sara_Ks> an asset. The most important part of this.. do this because you WANT to, not because you want to be an IRCop.
[21:42:30] <@Sara_Ks> I hope that answers the question.
[21:42:49] <@sps> Just to add to the frozen nickname/channel thing. Please bear in mind, running a channel radio can get you in trouble, although you will be warned by staff, but if ine doesnt listen it may result in frozen nick/channel.
[21:43:15] <@sps> one* doesnt
[21:43:20] <@Sara_Ks> Are there any questions anyone has they would like to ask?
[21:43:42] <@Sara_Ks> Or do you want me to continue..I have enough to go another 3 hours
[21:43:44] <@Sara_Ks> lol
[21:44:46] <@Sara_Ks> Ok, I'm not seeing more questions. I want to say I appreciate you all being here. I hope it has helped you in some way
[21:45:25] <@Sara_Ks> Thanks to our staff here for helping
[21:45:31] <@Kobi_S> Thank you, Sara_Ks! :)
[21:45:49] <@xPsycho> Does anyone have any questions about XFLAGS?
[21:48:28] <@Sara_Ks> Ok, Take Care, everyone
[21:48:37] <@xPsycho> BeCaK: Do you have a question for me?
[21:50:23] <@xPsycho> Just remember the following resources ...
[21:51:04] <@xPsycho> There are a ton of resources and pages on http://docs.dal.net/ in many different languages. This is a great place to start reading up in detail about IRC commands, services commands, etc.
[21:51:31] <@xPsycho> If you can't find your answer on http://docs.dal.net, then join #help and ask our helpers there.
[21:52:13] <@xPsycho> #operhelp should be reserved ONLY for matters that require immediate IRC Operator attention (things like forgot passwords). General IRC and services questions should be asked in #help
[21:53:07] <@Kobi_S> BeCaK: for more information about channel modes, you can visit http://docs.dal.net/docs/modes.html#2
KB #447
Category: Logs of previous #ServHelp help sessions
Added by: xPsycho
Added on: 12/01/2020 21:01
File Size
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